以下內容為台積電 2023 年第三季法人問答環節，前五位法人詢問內容與台積電回覆內容，《科技新報》透過 AI 工具轉錄並由編輯稍做修飾，第一時間為讀者帶來最全面的法說會訊息，供讀者參考。
Gokul Hariharan from JP Morgan. Yeah, hi, congratulations on the great result and thanks for the details on N3 and N2. My first question is on the technology leadership.
來自JP摩根的Gokul Hariharan。
嗨，恭喜你們取得了出色的成果，並感謝你們提供N3和N2的詳細資訊。我的第一個問題是關於技術領導力。
Given we are hearing a lot of competitive messaging from your US IDM competitors/customers in the last few months, Intel seems to think that they will be getting into technology or process technology leadership in 2025. Just wanted to hear what does TSMC think of Intel’s claim?
鑑於我們在過去的幾個月中聽到了您的美國IDM競爭對手/客戶的大量競爭訊息，英特爾似乎認為他們將在2025年進入技術或製程技術的領導地位。想聽聽台積電對英特爾的這種聲稱有何看法？
And when TSMC thinks about customer engagement, do you feel you will lose a little bit of market share to Intel when it comes to the N2 or the first generation of nanosheet transistors? Or you think your very high market share in N3 will continue into N2? That’s my first question.
當台積電考慮到客戶的參與度時，您是否覺得在N2或是納米片電晶體的第一代方面，您會稍微失去一些市場份額給英特爾呢？或者您認為您在N3的極高市場份額將會持續到N2呢？這是我的第一個問題。
Host 主持人：
Okay, thank you, Gokul. Please allow me to summarize your first question. So Gokul’s first question is about technology leadership and competition with, I think, particularly IDM. He notes this IDM is very messaging about taking over process technology leadership from TSMC.
好的，謝謝你，Gokul。請讓我來總結你的第一個問題。所以，Gokul的第一個問題是關於科技領導力和與IDM的競爭，我認為特別是IDM。他指出這個IDM非常強調要從TSMC手中接管製程技術的領導地位。
And so Gokul’s question is, how do we see this? Are we concerned that we will lose market share by nanosheet or N2 to this IDM, given their claims of regaining process technology leadership? Is that correct, Gokul? Yeah, that’s right. Thanks. Okay. Well, Gokul, this is CC Wei.
那麼，Gokul的問題是，我們如何看待這個問題？我們是否擔心會因為納米片或N2而失去對這個IDM的市場份額，尤其是他們聲稱要重新獲得製程技術的領導地位？這是你的問題，對吧，Gokul？對，沒錯。謝謝。好的。嗯，Gokul，這裡是Sisi Wei。
Let me answer your question with a very simple answer, say no. But, well, I will stay a little bit long. Actually, we do not underestimate any of our competitors or tax them lightly.
讓我用一個非常簡單的答案來回答你的問題，那就是不。但是，嗯，我會多說一點。實際上，我們並不低估任何的競爭對手，也不會輕易對他們課稅。
Having said that, our internal assessments show that our N3P, now I repeat again, N3P technology demonstrated (a) comparable PPA to 18A, my competitors’ technology. But with an earlier time to market, better technology maturity and much better cost.
話雖如此，我們的內部評估顯示，我們的N3P，我再重複一次，N3P技術與18A，也就是我的競爭對手的技術，展現出相當的PPA。但我們的上市時間更早，技術成熟度更高，且成本更低。
In fact, let me repeat again, our two nanometer technology without backside power is more advanced than both N3P and 18A. And what the semiconductor industries are most advanced technology when it is introduced in 2025. Does that answer your question, Gokul? 實際上，讓我再重申一次，我們的兩奈米技術沒有背面電源，比N3P和18A都更先進。而且，當它在2025年推出時，這是半導體行業最先進的技術。這樣回答了你的問題了嗎，Gokul？
Okay.
好的。
That’s quite clear.
那非常清楚。
Thank you very much. Could you also talk about, my second question is, could we talk a little bit about the AI related demand?
非常感謝您。關於我的第二個問題，我們能否稍微談談與AI相關的需求？
You’ve seen a pretty strong demand on the data center side and you’ve talked about AI being about 6% of revenues this year, mostly on the data center side.
您已經看到數據中心方面的需求相當強烈，而您也提到了AI今年將佔總收入的6%，主要來自數據中心方面。
Are we starting to see more engagement on AI demand on edge devices based on TSMC’s expectations? Is this going to be a big road driver in the next one to two years for TSMC’s leading edge AI devices, sorry, AI on edge devices? Do you think that that is a bigger driver for you?
我們是否開始看到基於台積電的期望，AI需求在邊緣設備上的參與度更高？這將會是台積電領先的AI邊緣設備在未來一到兩年的主要推動力嗎，抱歉，我是指AI在邊緣設備上？你認為這對你來說是更大的驅動力嗎？
Host:
Okay.
Thank you, Gokul. So Gokul’s second question is on AI related demand. He notes, of course, that we have talked last time also about our AI related demand outlook and particularly focused on what we call server AI processors or Gokul referring to data centers.
謝謝你，Gokul。所以，Gokul的第二個問題是關於AI相關的需求。他指出，我們上次也談論過我們的AI相關需求展望，特別是我們所稱的伺服器AI處理器，或者Gokul所提到的數據中心。
So his question is really more about on the edge devices. Are we starting to see AI related demand for edge devices? Do we expect this to be a big growth driver in the next one to two years for our leading edge technologies as well?
所以他的問題其實更多的是關於邊緣設備。我們是否開始看到與邊緣設備相關的AI需求？我們是否預期這將在未來一到兩年內成為我們領先邊緣技術的一個大的增長驅動器？
CC Wei, 回答：
Well, the answer is also very simple. Yes. We do see some activities from customers who add AI capability in end devices such as a smartphone and PCs through neural engine and AI on PC or whatever it is. And we certainly hope that this one will add to the course, help TSMC (become) more strengthened under our AI business.
嗯，答案也非常簡單。是的。我們確實看到一些客戶在終端設備如智能手機和個人電腦中增加AI能力，透過神經引擎和AI在PC或任何裝置。我們當然希望這將有助於課程的增加，使TSMC在我們的AI業務下更加強大。
Gakul:
So do you see that happen in the next one year or is it something that will happen in a more longer term horizon? Just wanted to understand when to think about the cadence of this growth.
那麼，您認為這會在接下來的一年內發生，還是會在更長期的時間內發生呢？我只是想了解何時該思考這種增長的節奏。
CC Wei:
Okay. Let me answer briefly. It started right now. And we were expecting that the more and more customers will put that AI server capability into the end devices, into their products.
好的，讓我簡短地回答一下。它現在已經開始了。我們預期越來越多的客戶會將這種AI能力應用到終端設備，應用到他們的產品中。
Gakul:
Got it. Yeah. Thank you very much.
明白了。對。非常感謝。
Host 主持人
Okay. Thank you, Gokul. Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please?
好的。謝謝你，Gokul。操作員，我們可以進行下一位參與者嗎？
Operator 操作員:
Next one to ask questions, Charlie Zhang from Morgan Stanley.
Charlie：
Hi, good afternoon, C.C., Mark, and Jeff. So my first question is about the cycle recovery. So much appreciation about your comments about in demand.
下一位提問的是來自摩根士丹利的Charlie Zhang。嗨，下午好，C.C.，Mark和Jeff。我的第一個問題是關於周期恢復。非常感謝你們對需求的評論。
So my question is about when do you expect there will be an uptick of the fab utilization, assuming demand is stabilizing and also inventory get back to the healthy level.
所以，我的問題是，假設需求穩定且庫存回到健康水平，您預期何時會有製程利用率的上升呢？
Because it’s just very hard to believe your fab utilization outside of the leading edge will stay at only 70%, 80%.
因為很難相信你們的製程工廠在領先技術之外的利用率只會維持在70%，80%。
So first question is about, do you see that overall fab utilization to pick up at any time soon? Thank you.
所以首先的問題是，你是否認為整體的製程利用率會在近期內上升？謝謝你。
Host:
Okay. So Charlie, I think your first question is sort of, if I’m correct, around the cycle and in terms of how do we see the cycle and the recovery?
好的。所以Charlie，我認為你的第一個問題大概是，如果我沒有理解錯的話，關於這個周期，以及我們如何看待這個周期和復甦？
When do we see the fab utilization picking up, which really is a function of, I guess, do we see the cycle bottoming out and when do we expect the recovery? Is that correct?
我們何時會看到晶圓廠利用率的提升，這實際上是一種功能，我猜，我們是否看到這個周期的底部，以及我們何時預期會恢復？這是正確的嗎？
Charlie：
Yes. Thank you.
是的。謝謝。
CC Wei：
Well, Charlie, this is C.C. Wei again. Let me answer your question.
嗯，Charlie，這是魏建民再次回答你的問題。讓我來回答你的問題。
As I said, we do observe some early signs of demand stabilization in PCs and smartphones and market. Those two segments are the biggest segment for TSMC’s business. We want to say that 2024 will be a very healthy growth. But right now, did we see the bottom? Very close, very close.
如我所說，我們確實觀察到PC和智能手機市場需求的一些早期穩定跡象。這兩個部分是台積電業務的最大部分。我們想說，2024年將是一個非常健康的增長。但是現在，我們是否看到了底部？非常接近，非常接近。
We want to, I cannot give you a number, but it’s because it’s too early to call it a sharp rebound. But even with a macro environment remain uncertain, we weigh in customers inventory control in first half of 2024. Having said that, we already say that we are strong technology leadership and the broad customer base. And those two are unique and specific to TSMC and never our customer to win business in market and TSMC continues to deliver healthy growth. And that’s why we can do better than overall industry. And that’s why we have confidence that we will have a healthy growth next year.
我們希望能夠，我無法給你一個具體的數字，但這是因為現在稱其為急劇反彈還為時過早。即使在宏觀環境仍然不確定的情況下，我們也在2024年上半年考慮客戶的庫存控制。儘管如此，我們已經表示我們擁有強大的技術領導力和廣泛的客戶基礎。而這兩者是台積電獨有且特殊的，我們從未讓我們的客戶在市場上贏得業務，台積電持續提供健康的增長。這就是為什麼我們可以做得比整個行業更好。這也是為什麼我們有信心我們明年將有健康的增長。
Okay, okay, thank you. Yeah, so just want to kind of verify because we do see some green shoots and some rush orders to wafer foundry sector. Thank you. But second question is also about AI. My question is about, over the past three months, do you see any upper revision of a forecast and a man from the GPU or does that cost and chip?
好的，好的，謝謝你。是的，我只是想確認一下，因為我們確實看到了一些綠芽和對晶圓製造業的急單。謝謝。但第二個問題也是關於AI的。我的問題是，過去三個月來，您是否看到任何預測的上修，或者來自GPU的男子或那個成本和晶片？
And I know it’s a very, very recent, right? Just two days ago, the US put up some additional export control on the AI shipment to China. Do you think that that is going to have any kind of near-term or long-term impact to your AI semi-revenue growth assumption? Thanks.
而我知道這是非常、非常近的事情，對吧？就在兩天前，美國對我們對中國的AI出口增加了一些額外的出口控制。你認為這會對你們的AI半導體收入增長假設產生任何短期或長期的影響嗎？謝謝。
Host:
Okay, thank you, Charlie. So Charlie’s second question is related to AI. Two-parter, first, do we see over the last three months, I think his words were an upper revision in the demand from AI in the last three months.
好的，謝謝你，Charlie。所以Charlie的第二個問題與AI有關。這是一個兩部分的問題，首先，我們是否在過去三個月中看到AI需求的上修，我認為他的話是在過去三個月中AI的需求有所上升。
And then he wants to know, given the recent additional regulations announced, what would the impact to the AI demand be to TSMC, both for the short-term and the long-term?然後他想知道，鑑於最近公布的額外規定，對於台積電的AI需求會有什麼影響，無論是短期還是長期？
CC Wei:
Charlie, the AI demand continues to grow stronger and stronger. So from TSMC point of view, now we have a capacity limitation to support them, to support the demand. We are working hard to increase the capacity to meet their demand. That’s for one thing.
Charlie，AI的需求持續增長，越來越強。所以從台積電的角度來看，我們現在有產能的限制來支援他們，來滿足他們的需求。我們正在努力增加產能以滿足他們的需求。這就是一件事。
Now, US government put a new regulation and for some of the product cannot be shipped to mainland China. However, it is, you know, just for a couple of days, we are still in evaluation, we are still doing our assessment. But so far we can tell you that the impact to TSMC is limited and manageable. At least for the short-term, for the long-term we are still evaluating what is the consequence.
現在，美國政府實施了新的規定，部分商品無法運送到中國大陸。然而，你知道的，只是短短幾天，我們仍在進行評估，我們仍在進行我們的評估。但到目前為止，我們可以告訴你，對TSMC的影響是有限且可控的。至少就短期而言，對於長期我們仍在評估其後果。
Charlie:
Got it. So actually there was one embedded question about the custom chip. So may I know your perspective about this custom chip long-term may kind of gain share or outgrow GPU products. So what’s your assumption for this custom chip in terms of the real contribution within AI or to TSMC? May I ask this as a follow-up?
明白了。所以實際上，有一個內嵌的問題關於定制晶片。那麼，我可以知道您對這種定制晶片長期可能會增加份額或超越GPU產品的看法嗎？那麼，您對這種定制晶片在AI或對TSMC的實際貢獻的假設是什麼？我可以問這個追蹤問題嗎？
CC Wei:
Okay, let me answer it. Where the customer develop the CPU, GPU, AI accelerator or AC for all the types of AI applications.
好的，讓我來回答這個問題。客戶在哪裡開發用於所有類型的AI應用的CPU、GPU、AI加速器或AC。
The commonalities that they all require usage of a leading edge technology with stable yield delivery to support large or die size and a strong boundary design ecosystem.
他們所有的共通點都需要使用領先的技術，並提供穩定的產量以支持大型或死亡尺寸，以及強大的邊界設計生態系統。
All of those are TSMC’s strengths. So we are able to address and capture a major portion of the market in terms of a semiconductor component in AI. 所有這些都是台積電的優勢。因此，我們能夠在AI的半導體組件方面，佔據並捕獲市場的主要部分。
Charlie:
Okay, okay, thank you.
好的，好的，謝謝。
Host:
Okay, thank you, Charlie. Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please?
好的，謝謝你，Charlie。操作員，我們可以進行下一位參與者嗎？
Operator:
Next one to ask question, Bruce Liu from Goldman Sachs.
接下來提問的是來自高盛的劉布魯斯。
Bruce:
Okay, thank you for taking my question. I think the question is try to ask about the outlook for next two years. I do recall that management mentioned about like 15 to 20% revenue kickers from 21 to 26. The smartphone business supposed to be in line or slightly below the corporate average in terms of the gross rate.
好的，感謝您接受我的問題。我認為這個問題是試圖詢問接下來兩年的前景。我確實記得管理層提到從21年到26年的收入增長應該在15到20%之間。智能手機業務的增長率應該與公司平均水平相符或略低。
But the smartphone business was down meaningfully in 2023. Do we expect to see a sharp rebound for the smartphone business to get back to the corporate average in terms of gross rate? Also that the management also mentioned that the backend business will grow in line with the corporate average. Will we see a much stronger growth from the backend business in the coming two years?
但是，到了2023年，智能手機業務顯著下滑。我們是否預期智能手機業務將會急劇反彈，回到公司平均的毛利率水準呢？此外，管理層也提到後端業務將與公司平均水平一同成長。我們是否會在接下來的兩年看到後端業務的強勁增長？
Host:
Okay, so Bruce’s question really is looking at, we have indeed, you’re right, Bruce. We had said we will grow between 15 to 20% revenue kicker in US dollar terms from 2021 to 2026. So Bruce’s question wants to break down the components here to look at smartphone in particular, given that it has been a slower going market these last few years.
好的，所以Bruce的問題實際上是在看，我們確實，你說得對，Bruce。我們曾說過我們將在2021年至2026年之間以美元計價的收入增長率將在15%到20%之間。所以Bruce的問題想要分解這裡的組件來看特別是智能手機，考慮到它在過去幾年一直是一個增長較慢的市場。
How do we see the growth of the smartphone market the next one to two years in the context of this CAGR? And then also I think Bruce is also asking about the backend growth. We have said previously we’ll grow slightly faster than the corporate average. What is the current expectation now also for the next one to two years? Is that correct, Bruce?
我們如何在這個複合年增長率的背景下看待未來一到兩年的智能手機市場增長？然後我也認為布魯斯也在問後端的增長。我們之前已經說過，我們的增長速度將略快於公司平均水平。現在對於未來一到兩年的期望是什麼？那是正確的，布魯斯嗎？
Bruce:
Yes, thank you.
是的，謝謝你。
Wendell Huang:
Right, Bruce, this is Wendell. Yeah, in the next two to three years, backing up to 21 to 26, we still expect that the smartphone as a whole will grow slightly slower than the corporate average. We still think that HPC will be the strongest one and will be the major growth contributor to our multi-year growth. This is your first question.
對，Bruce，這是Wendell。是的，在接下來的兩到三年，回溯到21到26年，我們仍預期整體的智能手機將會比公司平均水平成長得稍微慢一些。我們仍然認為高效能運算（HPC）將會是最強的一環，並將成為我們多年成長的主要推動者。這是你的第一個問題。
As to the growth of backend business, we still expect that the backend business as a whole will grow slightly faster than the corporate average in the five-year time period.
關於後端業務的成長，我們仍預期在五年的時間裡，後端業務整體的成長速度將略微超過公司平均水準。
Bruce:
I see, thank you. So the next question is for the technology traders. I mean, for TSMC, for revenue contribution for 5nm, we start to see the minimal revenue contribution for 5nm starting at third quarter 2020, and 3nm is third quarter 2023. So the cadence, it looks like, is longer for 3nm versus 5nm and 7nm.
我明白了，謝謝。那麼下一個問題是給科技交易員的。我的意思是，對於台積電來說，我們開始看到5奈米的最小收入貢獻是從2020年第三季度開始，而3奈米則是從2023年第三季度開始。所以看起來，3奈米的節奏比5奈米和7奈米要長。
What is the technology cadence moving forward? Are we able to see a minimal revenue contribution of 2nm in two-year time frame or three-year time frame? I think the technology migration cadence is an important indicator as well. 未來的技術節奏是什麼？我們是否能在兩年或三年的時間框架內看到2奈米的最小收入貢獻？我認為技術遷移的節奏也是一個重要的指標。
Host:
Okay, thank you, Bruce. So Bruce’s second question, again, as he said, is around the technology cadence. He notes that 5nm started contributing revenue in 3Q20, but I think you’re saying 3nm revenue is a contribution in 3Q23. So the cadence is growing longer to kind of three years between five and three. So what will be the technology cadence in the future? And thus for 2nm, when should we expect meaningful revenue as well? Is that correct, Bruce?
好的，謝謝你，Bruce。所以，Bruce的第二個問題，再次，如他所說，是關於技術節奏。他指出5nm在2020年第三季度開始產生收入，但我認為你是在說3nm的收入將在2023年第三季度作出貢獻。所以，從五到三的節奏正在變得更長，大約三年的時間。那麼，未來的技術節奏將會是什麼呢？因此，對於2nm，我們應該何時期待有意義的收入呢？這是正確的，布魯斯嗎？
Bruce:
That’s correct. Okay, thank you.
那是正確的。好的，謝謝你。
CC:
Okay, Bruce, let me answer the question. I think that we develop the technology to meet the customer’s demand. That’s a first priority to us. But then different customers may have a different product schedule consideration. And as time goes by, the technology complexity actually become more and more complicated. And our customer design their product and react to the market situation. So let me answer the question that’s in a very simple way. TSMC’s technology cadence remain constant to support our customers’ growth. But whether we got the same amount or same percentage of the revenue, it will depend on customers’ product schedule.
好的，Bruce，讓我來回答這個問題。我認為我們開發技術是為了滿足客戶的需求。這是我們的首要任務。但是，不同的客戶可能會有不同的產品排程考量。隨著時間的推移，技術的複雜性實際上變得越來越複雜。而我們的客戶會根據市場狀況設計他們的產品。所以讓我以非常簡單的方式回答這個問題。台積電的技術節奏始終保持穩定，以支持我們客戶的成長。但是，我們是否獲得相同的收入金額或相同的收入比例，將取決於客戶的產品排程。
Bruce:
But the follow-up question is that if the customer doesn’t really need the advanced technology in as fast as before, maybe we slow it down a bit, which will make a better return, right?
但接下來的問題是，如果客戶並不真的像以前那麼迅速地需要進階科技，或許我們可以稍微放慢腳步，這樣或許能獲得更好的回報，對吧？
Host:
So Bruce’s follow-up is, so if the customers do not need the LeanyNode as fast or as soon as before, then slow down the cadence. Does that mean we will see better returns? 那麼，Bruce的追問是，如果客戶不像以前那樣迫切需要LeanyNode，那我們是否應該放慢節奏呢？這是否意味著我們將看到更好的回報？
CC Wei:
Well, we don’t slow down our technology development per se. We might slow down our capacity expansion according to customers’ demand. Did I answer your question, Bruce? That’s it. That’s what we are doing right now.
嗯，我們並不會放慢我們的技術開發速度。我們可能會根據客戶的需求來放慢我們的產能擴張。布魯斯，我有回答到你的問題嗎？就是這樣。這就是我們現在正在做的。
Bruce:
I understand. Thank you.
我明白了。謝謝你。
Host:
Okay. Thank you. Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please?
好的。謝謝你。操作員，我們可以進行下一位參與者嗎？
Operator: Yes, the next one, we have Laura Chang from Citi.
接線員：是的，下一位，我們有來自Citi的Laura Chang。
LC: Hello. Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. I think my question is also similar to what Bruce mentioned about the capacity expansion plan.
Laura：您好。午安。感謝您接受我的問題。我認為我的問題也與Bruce提到的有關擴大產能的計劃相似。
LC: As we see that healthier inventory situation right now, and at the same time, the most advanced process now depends on customers’ demand. So I just want to get your feeling about the overall, the capex outlook or capacity outlook into the next two years.
Laura：我們現在看到的是更健康的庫存狀況，同時，最先進的流程現在取決於客戶的需求。所以我只是想了解一下您對未來兩年的整體資本支出展望或產能展望的感覺。
LC: Do you feel that will be better to resume the year-on-year capex next year or later? Considering there’s still quite a strong demand on N3, N2 ramp-up at the same time, the most advanced now seems you will see maybe two times more expensive on N2 versus N3. So my question is just about the future capacity expansion plan. Yeah, thank you.
Laura：您覺得明年或之後恢復逐年的資本支出會更好嗎？考慮到N3和N2仍然存在相當強烈的需求，同時進行N2的擴建，現在看來，N2相對於N3可能會昂貴兩倍。所以，我的問題只是關於未來的產能擴展計劃。是的，謝謝你。
Host: Okay, so Laura’s first question, again, is on the capacity expansion plan. She notes that, of course, the inventory, as we said, is becoming healthier, but also with N3 and N2. So she really wants to know what is the capex and capacity outlook plan for the next one to two years.
主持人：好的，首先是Laura的第一個問題，再次關於擴大產能的計劃。她指出，當然，我們已經說過，庫存正在變得更健康，但也包括N3和N2。所以她真的想知道接下來一到兩年的資本支出和產能展望計劃是什麼。
WD: Right, hi, Laura, it’s Wendell. C.C. just mentioned our capacity plan will really depends on the customer’s product plan. Now, in terms of capex, what we can see now is that we, in the past few years, have invested very heavily to capture the growth in the next few years.
Wendell：好的，嗨，Laura，我是Wendell。C.C.剛剛提到我們的產能計劃將真正取決於客戶的產品計劃。現在，談到資本支出，我們現在能看到的是，我們在過去的幾年中投入了大量資金以捕捉未來數年的增長。
WD: And as we begin to harvest those investments, we expect the increase of our capex to be leveling off in the next few years. That doesn’t mean the dollar amount is going to reduce, but the capital intensity is expected to decline in the next few years. That’s what we can see at this moment.
Wendell：隨著我們開始收穫這些投資，我們預期在未來幾年內，我們的資本支出增長將趨於平緩。這並不意味著金額將會減少，但是預期在未來幾年內，資本密集度將會下降。這就是我們現在能看到的。
LC: Thank you, Wendell. I recall that previously we mentioned about, like we target longer term to back to like mid-30s for our capex intensity. So is any possibility we see we achieve that target next year?
Laura：謝謝你，Wendell。我記得我們之前提到過，我們的目標是在長期內將我們的資本支出強度回到中30s。那麼，我們有可能在明年達到這個目標嗎？
WD: It’s, first of all, it’s not a target. It’s a forecast based on the customer’s demand. And secondly, it’s like three or five years out. It’s not the immediate next year. Wendell：首先，這並不是一個目標。這是基於客戶需求的預測。其次，這是三到五年後的事情，並非即將到來的下一年。
LC: Okay, thank you. Very clear. And also my second question is about N2 progress.
I appreciate C.C.’s previous sharing on the progress and also the backside power timeline. I’m just wondering that what would be the most challenging part if we migrate to like a backside power? And also since the transistor density will become a totally different analogy. So I’m just wondering that the client’s migration or intention to adapt the most advanced node into our next two, three years. And what will be the most challenging in technology perspective? Thank you.
Laura：好的，謝謝你。非常清楚。另外，我的第二個問題是關於N2的進展。我非常感謝C.C.之前分享的進度以及背面電源的時間線。我只是好奇，如果我們轉移到像背面電源這樣的東西，最具挑戰性的部分會是什麼？而且，由於晶體管密度將變成一種完全不同的類比。所以我只是在想，客戶是否打算在接下來的兩三年內，將最先進的節點轉移到我們這裡。從技術角度來看，最大的挑戰將是什麼？謝謝。
Host: Okay, so Laura, let me make sure I got this right. So your second question is about N2 and you want to know with the adoption of backside power rail, what is the most challenging part from a technology perspective? And then how do we see the customer adoption?
主持人：好的，Laura，讓我確認一下是否理解正確。所以你的第二個問題是關於N2，你想知道在採用背面電源軌道的情況下，從技術角度來看最具挑戰性的部分是什麼？然後我們如何看待客戶的接受度？
LC: Yes, correct. Thank you.
Laura：是的，沒錯。謝謝你。
C.C.: Laura, I answer that. You know, as a technology moving to more and more advanced node, the challenge is always there. Technology complexity increase dramatically, but we can do it. No doubt about it. And we are still remain the technology leadership in this industry.
C.C.：Laura，我來回答這個問題。作為一種不斷向更先進節點發展的技術，挑戰總是存在的。技術的複雜性大幅增加，但我們可以做到，毫無疑問。而且我們仍然保持著這個行業的技術領導地位。
C.C.: If you ask me, what is the most challenging part? I will say its cost. I mean, that’s how you look at it today. Inflation, everything and the tool have become more and more expensive.
C.C.：如果你問我，最具挑戰性的部分是什麼？我會說那就是成本。我的意思是，這就是你今天看待它的方式。通貨膨脹，所有事物和工具的價格都變得越來越高。
C.C.: Although we can do it on time to meet customers’ requirement, our challenge right now, actually, I would say, number one, cost. I want to reduce the cost so more customer can afford it.
C.C.：儘管我們能夠準時完成以滿足客戶的需求，但我們目前的挑戰，實際上，我會說，首要的就是成本。我希望能降低成本，讓更多的客戶能夠負擔得起。
C.C.: But even with that, actually, we have a lot of customer interested and engaged with the TSMC today. Actually, it’s probably higher than the N3 at a similar stage. Okay. Did I answer your question?
C.C.：但即使如此，實際上，我們有很多客戶對今天的TSMC表現出了興趣並積極參與。實際上，這可能比在相同階段的N3還要高。我有回答到你的問題嗎？
LC: Yes, very clear. Thank you very much, CC.
LC：對。是的，非常清楚。非常感謝你，CC。
Host: Okay, thank you, Laura. Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please?
主持人：好的，謝謝你，Laura。接線員，我們可以進行下一位參與者嗎？
Operator: Right now, we have Brett Simpson from LFA Research.
接線員：現在，我們有來自LFA研究的Brett Simpson。
BS: Thanks very much. I had a question for CC regarding the hyperscalers.
Brett：非常感謝。我有一個關於超大規模業者的問題要問CC。
BS: Major US hyperscalers are hiring a lot of chip designers at the moment and looking to make their own AI silicon, going direct to TSMC, much like Apple has done over the years. Are you, is TSMC generally supportive of this trend or not?
Brett：目前，美國的主要超大規模業者正在大量聘請晶片設計師，並計劃自行製造AI晶片，就像蘋果多年來直接與台積電合作一樣。請問您，台積電是否普遍支持這種趨勢？
BS: And can you give us your perspective as to whether hyperscalers have the in-house IP and skills to cut out the ASIC suppliers or not and go direct to TSMC? Thank you.
Brett：您能否從您的角度告訴我們，超大規模業者是否具有內部的IP和技能，以去除ASIC供應商，直接與TSMC打交道？謝謝。
Host: Okay, Brett, thank you.So Brett’s first question is looking at his observation, US hyperscale companies are hiring a lot of people to do AI custom chips silicon and working directly or coming directly to work with TSMC. So his question is, is TSMC support such efforts? And how do we see such type of customers, I guess? Is that your question, Brett?
主持人：好的，Brett，謝謝你。所以，Brett的第一個問題是關於他的觀察，美國的超大規模公司正在聘請大量的人來製作AI定制芯片矽片，並直接或間接與TSMC合作。所以他的問題是，TSMC是否支持這樣的努力？那我們如何看待這類型的客戶，我猜？這是你的問題嗎？
BS: Yeah, and to generally just share your perspective on how you see this part of the business developing at TSMC.
Brett：是的，就，總體來說，分享你對於在台積電這部分業務發展的看法。謝謝。
C.C.: Thank you. Hi, Brett. Okay, those are hyperscalers. I don’t comment on the specific customer, but all we know or our fundamental rule is where the customer develop the CPU, GPU, AI accelerator or ASIC for their own application or for any purpose in the AI area, we will support them, actually.
C.C.：嗨，Brett。好的，那些是超大規模業者。我不會針對特定的客戶發表評論，但我們所知道的，或者我們的基本原則是，無論客戶是為了自己的應用程式，或者是為了AI領域的任何目的，開發CPU、GPU、AI加速器或ASIC，我們實際上都會支持他們。
C.C.: And because of our technology leadership and our good manufacturing, so we are able to address and capture a major portion of the market. And so you are asking whether we support it or not, we support every customer all over the world.
C.C.：基於我們在科技領導和優良製造方面的優勢，我們能夠應對並佔據市場的主要部分。至於你問我們是否支持，我們支持全世界的每一位客戶。
Brett: Okay, thanks, that’s very clear. And maybe just as a follow up, I wanted to ask about some of the areas in the quarter that were weaker than expected, namely seven nanometer, I think it’s half year on year, and also automotive that saw a decline sequentially, a meaningful decline sequentially.
Brett：好的，謝謝，這很明確。再問個應該只是後續的問題，我想詢問一下這個季度中比預期弱的一些領域，特別是七奈米，我認為年比年下降了一半，以及汽車部門的表現，它在季度環比上出現了明顯下降。
Brett: Can you just help us understand how you build back up seven nanometer, what led to the weakness and what’s happening in automotive and how do you assess prospects for automotive over the next six, nine months or so? Thank you.
Brett：您能否幫助我們理解，您是如何重建七奈米的，是什麼導致了弱勢，以及汽車行業的情況如何？您如何評估汽車行業在接下來的六到九個月的前景？謝謝。
Host: Okay, so two parts to Brett’s question, maybe I’ll start with the second, but anyway, looking at automotive demand and the weakness in the past quarter, how do we see the automotive demand?
主持人：好的，關於Brett的問題有兩部分，或許我先從第二部分開始。無論如何，當我們看到汽車需求以及過去一季的疲弱，我們如何看待汽車需求呢？
Host: And then also his question is about seven nanometer, also year on year sharp revenue decrease. So how do we see the outlook for seven nanometer as well?
主持人：然後他的問題也是關於七奈米，以及年度收入的急劇下降。那麼，我們如何看待七奈米的前景呢？
C.C.: Well, let me answer the question on automotive demand. In fact, in the past three years, automotive demand has very strong and we deliver whatever they asked.
C.C.：讓我來回答有關汽車需求的問題。實際上，在過去的三年中，汽車需求非常強勁，我們提供了他們所要求的一切。
C.C.: And today I think it’s automotive demand already entered the inventory adjustment mode in the second half of 2023. However, we still expect the automotive demand-wide increase again in 2024, because the more and more EV, more and more functionality being added to automotive and that’s what we saw.
C.C.：而今天，我認為汽車需求已在2023年下半年進入庫存調整模式。然而，我們仍預期2024年的汽車需求將再次增加，因為越來越多的電動車，以及越來越多的功能被加到汽車上，這就是我們所看到的。
C.C.: Now talking about the N7, the seven nanometers technology, why we have such a low utilization or the revenue decrease? It’s a goal beyond our initial, our original plan because we expect the N7 to be very fully utilized even now, but it is not.
C.C.：現在我們來談談N7，這項七奈米技術，為什麼我們的使用率這麼低，或者說收入下降了呢？這超出了我們最初的計劃，因為我們原本預期N7會被充分利用，但現在並未如此。
C.C.: Let me answer the question because we suddenly have in 10 years, the smartphone demand dropped dramatically from about 1.4 billion units to about 1.1 billion now.
C.C.：讓我來回答這個問題，因為我們突然在10年內，智能手機的需求量從大約14億部驟降到現在的大約11億部。
So that exactly in this timeframe, the N7 utilization has been impacted and followed by one major customer who delays their product introduction. And so that’s why we have a low utilization.
C.C.：因此，就在這個時間範圍內，N7的使用率受到了影響，並且有一個主要的客戶延遲了他們的產品推出。這就是為什麼我們的使用率低的原因。
C.C.: But seeing that, we are confident to backfill our seven, six nanometer capacity with additional wave of specialty demand from a consumer, RF, connectivity and other applications and will return to a healthy level of utilization over the next several years.
C.C.：但看到這一點，我們有信心用來自消費者、無線電頻率、連接性以及其他應用的額外專業需求來填補我們七、六奈米的產能，並將在未來幾年內恢復到健康的利用水準。
C.C.: This is very similar to a situation that we have a 28 nanometer back in 2018 and 2019 timeframe. Okay. In the beginning it was underutilized for a period of time and we work hard with our customer and then for developing some specialty technologies and then now we have to expand 28 nanometers of specialty capacity. That’s the same kind of a story. Brett, did I answer your question?
C.C.：這與我們在2018年和2019年時期擁有28奈米的情況非常相似。在一開始，這項技術在一段時間內並未被充分利用，我們與我們的客戶努力合作，然後開發了一些專業技術，現在我們必須擴大28奈米的專業產能。這就是同樣的故事。Brett，我有回答到你的問題嗎？
BS: Thank you. Okay, thanks a lot. Yep. Thanks very much.
Brett：謝謝你。好的，非常感謝。是的。非常感謝你。
Host: All right, Brett. Thank you. Operator, can we move on to the next participant please?
主持人：好的，Brett。謝謝你。接線員，我們可以進行下一位參與者嗎？
（首圖來源：shutterstock）
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